Holochain Forum

What's your views on "money"?

This is my response to @The-A-Man from a different thread as it has gone quite a way away from the original topic:

I’ve seen a lot of discussions and work and projects on exchanges between mutual credit over the last couple of years to address those and I do see it as a problematic issue but only one that can try to be solved instead of simply saying it won’t, and I believe that’s why I’m still spending time replying because throughout my life I hear people saying it can’t be done yet it is those who just get on and do it that prove the nay-sayers wrong, and what I see and feel from your replies, whatever your stance, is you’re saying things can’t be done when they are, and your only arguments seem to be random straw men examples like a youtube million views which, for a start has a foundation in the “let’s get as many views as possible” world, and one of earning “money” from it yet what I see in this community is people solving problems that are currently problematic more than they could be because of the current monetary system.

Take a community where they don’t have youtube or give a hoot about how many views they get, but instead they are focused more on collaborating better without the intervention of the “big boys” of tech who want to on the outside “help” these people yet it’s all about control. That’s what holochain enables, and whilst it can also be used for the opposite and even if deals are being done where it is, it doesn’t mean the good can’t be done too, so again I don’t understand your stance. If you believe something is a certain way just go ahead and build it, that’s what I’m doing and many others, whereas what I see here is you saying “it has to be my way or the highway”, for example your project idea for this currency, yet once again it’s a single point of failure because it’s your idea and someone else won’t like it. Just like holochain, and everything else. So, again with respect, I don’t see the point in your arguments, if you believe in something just go ahead and build it - the market always decides as Gary Vaynerchuk correctly says. A business starts with a paying customer, not a product.


The CBPP case is an entirely different one. That’s why I included in square-brackets.

Anyway, here’s the CBPP thread: How do you model land, forests, water sources (like wells) in hREA?

Lesson learned.

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Hey Steve!

Thank you for all of your thoughts here – very interesting to read!

I just wanted to give you a heads up that I moved your post into the General Chat category. We try to keep stuff non-technical posts there. Let me know if you have any questions!


Carolyn :slight_smile:

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Hi @carolyn thanks for letting me know, perhaps you want to clarify the description of the category I put it in because that says

Read and write about subjects ranging from the nuts-and-bolts of Holochain, to distributed systems and cryptography, to P2P economics and collective intelligence. Articles, essays, explainers, infographics, and videos are all welcome.

…which is why I decided to place the discussion there as I had taken the initiative to split it off from the original thread as it had been getting a bit off topic.

One cannot win :smiley:

…and it’s about learning, because the whole thread was about learning what people’s views on “money” is, which is why I didn’t feel it was appropriate for “general chat”.

I guess if you didn’t follow the thread then that wouldn’t be apparent. They do get a bit long, that is the nature of discussing these issues!

by “people” I focus that on the project’s founders which were being put into question.

Perhaps they could do with being made clearer, I am happy with what I gained from reading the article about unenclosable carriers that a framework is being built to enable all types, perhaps I am incorrect, but that’s what I gathered. @The-A-Man seemed to think different.

Hmm – I see that the description makes sense now for the post, thank you for pointing to that. Perhaps I should take a second look at the sub-category despription :thinking: My gut indicated that conversations like these don’t quite fit under technical discussion though I see how it is a continuation of something started in that space.

I’m in an ongoing process for the Forum to be the most coherent/useful for people. I’ll sit with where it makes sense for technical discussions that go into the philosophical and abstract realm could live…

Thoughts? My DMs are open

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I think where I moved it to was fine, it’s about learning and it’s about concepts.

I think the title I chose made it sound more like general chat so that could be better.

I think the technical discussions are under Technical Discussion, we are discussing a Concepts and Explanations subcategory of the Learning Library here, there is a Concepts and Architecture subcategory of the Technical Discussion for technical stuff so would understand it not being appropriate there.

As for DMs, it’s good to keep these discussions open so they can be found and contributed to if people want. I’m not personally bothered, I have no skin in the game, I do like a good debate though, and always happy to debate decisions I make as generally I don’t do them without reason and a fair amount of research. I do agree title could be better though, and as it happened the thread seemed to die off and now it’s morphed into a discussion about the wonderful subject of naming things, perhaps we need to move it again lol. Please don’t lol.

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The marketplace.
Doesn’t there have to be a market in every large community?
And isn’t money the oil that keeps the machine running?

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First post on the forum. I’m going for the title. My view on money is that it is energy, and should only be seen as such, period. Not an energy source, just pure energy. Analog to electricity. Batteries are really wallets. My beef with how most people see money is gigantic. To me, money has nothing to do with “the market” (no more than electricity for a power tool), or with some means to some end. It’s not sacred. There’s no mystique in it. It’s inert, and qualities most sees in it are 100% given, external, coming from cultural biases. Ya it’s terrible to not have enough, and it’s kind of cool to have some, but its general scarcity sucks, and then what most people will do for it sickens me. My personal gut feeling is Holo founders views on money is sound. The proof is in the pudding: Holo HOT token generated enough riches for the project to stand on its own, gather credibility, and have ordinary people believe in it. That in itself is one of the most clever and effective use of energy I’ve seen in my entire life. And now, look at all the people with a variety of views on money sitting together (metaphorically speaking) and sharing views about money. This is genius. And priceless.

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Hi @8jef!

I’m with you on that! You get “charged” for things, there’s “currencies”, and so on.

Wealth is value x leverage, however ‘society’ has taught people from the top-down divide & conquer instead of how to collaborate.

This project is certainly a step in the right direction, it’s my belief if we support this then no matter what happens in the future we know we’ve done something today that’s moved us a little closer to the vision I certainly have of a more ‘sane’ world!

How did you find out about the project? I remember seeing the metacurrency stuff a while back and been following holochain for a while, more interested of late since they presented at the open coop event a while back.

Right on. I’ve just “introduced myself” in the related thread, which should answer your question. Cheers

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