Holochain Forum

Let's talk about funding peeps

I know a lot of us are in the same boat that we want to change the world with our amazing ground-breaking projects but we are struggling for funding since most of the people with the money only seem to care about blind profit and do not give a damn about the enviroment or the people…

So what is the answer?

How do we turn things around and pool our resources so we can all get the funding we deserve?

Let’s talk… :wink:

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I think what @ThomasMiller & his team are building with InvestorEngine could likely fill such a gap. Imagine being able to take any kinds of resources as investment, not just money! Kinda turns “investment platforms” into “social support networks” as far as I see it…

And I see you’ve already found the linked page, so that’s great :smiley:

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AllianceBlock also will help solve this problem. But in the end it will still be you and your project that need to create enough interest.

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My current approach is to try separate my Holochain projects from income activities. ie generate (semi) passive income from typical extractive startup projects to cover living costs. No easy feat.

The big problem with any form of “investment” is that it’s always extractive. Investors only invest because they expect an ROI. And that creates a forcing function which pushes your project into very narrow scarcity-based business models.

The ultimate P2P networks are those with zero surplus value extraction. So that means zero transaction fees, zero joining fees and zero profit.

But while we don’t yet have commons to provide for our collective needs, we still need money to pay rent etc.

Best ideas I’ve got so far are:

  1. Seed money: allow investors but have a cap on their ROI and abolish all equity. eg you invest $100, you’ll get back a lifetime maximum of perhaps 10X ($1000) through whatever mechanism. Nobody gets any equity, the project can never be sold.
  2. Operating cashflow: you charge a % fee on each transaction, but you have 100% public realtime financials, and at the beginning of each year/quarter you produce a public budget. Any revenues extracted in excess of the budget are redistributed back to the network/community. Ideally you also set an employee hard cap (eg maximum 20 full-time) and pay everyone the same salary.
  3. If you have a network that is already generating value, then you could do #2 by way of mutual credit. ie if you need $100k for the quarter, the organisation can somehow go -$100k into debt (increased credit limit) and repay that over time.

Do any of these models apply in InvestorEngine @ThomasMiller?

/2c

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Yes I am very much looking forward to Investor Engine… :blush:

What you were all saying reminds me of what my friends over at S7 foundation are working on too, which myself and Nicole are also a part off… :blush:

Infinite World Game is another part of Our World and Noomap & ARC are also being integrated into Our World… :slight_smile:

http://iwg.life/s7foundation/

Do we know when InvestorEngine will be done by?

Looks cool. Do you know when this will be live? It currently uses Blockchain. Do you think they would consider moving to holochain later? I noticed they have David Atkinson as one of their advisors and he is also part of holochain so it could be on the cards… :slight_smile:

Yes I love all of these ideas thanks… :blush: just trying to get from here to there… and how to survive till then… because I am working full time on Our World and have no other income…

I really don’t want to have to stop working on it again to do more freelance work… this is why progress is soooooo slow.

I have a crowd funding campaign on gofundme but got very little donations so not sure what else to do in the short term to survive?

Investors don’t want to invest because they don’t really understand it… I guess because it’s focus is actually helping the world rather than exploiting it with the sole focus of making profit at the expense of everything else…

Any advice or support would be really appreciated thanks. :blush:

Yes :slight_smile: the partnership is already in place
https://twitter.com/allianceblock/status/1146419872651522048
Afaik they will use Holochain for the community or social features

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Our co RedGrid is in the middle of a crowdfund… check us out at https://birchal.com. In September we will sit down with Tom on lessons learned and make InvestorEngine best of breed :slight_smile:

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How do you get people interested?

Maybe I’m using the wrong platform? Maybe kickstarter or indiegogo would be better?

Where do I find people who would want to donate?

I see many others easily raising funds with crowd funding but I have always struggled?

Where am I going wrong?

Would REALLY appreciate some feedback. Thanks guys. :blush:

Good luck with yours but by the look of it you don’t need it! :wink: so congratulations instead! Lol :laughing:

Hey David, thanks for the questions. (We would still like to reach our max target, so we are not there yet, but now it is about how quickly we can scale up and meet our customer commitments).

I’ve been involved in a number of startups, which tend to be a collection of smart but socially awkward engineers :slight_smile: This time around, we have our CEO Dr Adam who has the knowledge (PhD in carbon financing) but also the stage presence. He’s a celeb who is a true synthesist. Combine that with boy wonder marketeer Alex and we have a media machine across the spectrum of social media.

But mainly: hard work. Refining the message over the past half year, getting deep inside the problem space and in our case, strong connections into the existing energy industry, and constantly thinking of communications… this is the difference for me this time around (a previous startup prided itself on ‘bootstrapping’, but that was a slog).

One other tip: find someone who understands the regulations. Crowdfunding is a mess around the world (in Canada each province has their own ideas; here in Australia there are a few gotchas that are diabolical).

We purposely picked targets that were attainable, knowing that this is just a stepping stone for another round after we have met key objectives in our first “horizon”.

Happy to expand more if you want more ideas.

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What I like with value flow equations is you can place a limited return on investment. I call this the return factor. I think investments should have a return factor of 2, and then they have double their money back and can put it into the next investment.

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This can be done with investor engine, I personally thing it should be limited to 2 or 3 times your money back if the equity hold has a right to revenue and the ability to sell off the equity. But this is what we all have to test and see what works.

I think we should also experiment with validation rules where people have to unhide all their holo investments so the validation rules can check if someone is holding too much of something we measure which might cause an individual to have too much power, I’m thinking out loud here I don’t know if this would be practical.

All investments in InvestorEngine would always say public and live in real time. InvestorEngine would never get involved in a deal that doesn’t uphold transparency first. - that is my feeling about it all. - everyone should be-able to see how much each peer is getting in real time.

We are trying to demonstrate and lead by example the level of transparency and authenticity, so that governments and banks will have to go transparent themselves then the public get to be the judge/auditors of each transaction.

Does anyone object to this?

If investments and projects tracked via REA supply chain system predicts with 99% certainty a service is going to be delivered, then Yes I think trade-able financial instruments/verified stories can be created to go in debt with the community to get things done quicker or other benefit, but I think all these proposals should be done with a dynamic multi signature setup. Dynamic Multi Signature means parties already in the signature ring can propose for other members to join or can propose to change the required number of signatures to move something.

@ThomasMiller when will investor engine be ready?

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Thanks for all your advice Mike, yeah I have been getting into the problem space and refining my message for 7 years! lol But I have been doing this on my own mostly, I had some people come and help for a little bit but were all volunteers since I couldn’t afford to pay them and so they had other life pressures like jobs and family so over time they lose interest so I end up on my own again…

What I REALLY need help with is the communication, marketing, PR & funding… if you know where I can get that help I would be REALLY grateful, thank you! :slight_smile:

I wish to just focus on my role as CTO on the technical vision and actually building it rather than talking about it all the time! lol

Yeah could REALLY do with that now! :wink: