Holochain Forum

Can we talk about Ceptr already?

The more I dig into the space that Holochain emerges from, the more I really want to see what Ceptr can do.

I’m very interested in Gregory Bateson’s idea that the problems we face all emerge from the difference between how nature works and how people think. I’m also fascinated by Jordan Greenhall and Daniel Schmachtenberger’s work on fundamental capacities (like receptive capacity, discernment, and ‘sovereignty’ in general) that we need to bootstrap collective intelligence to exponential levels.

I acknowledge that it’s probably unproductive to be impatient about this but I want to see frankness around the shortcomings of Holochain when it comes to exponential sense-making and choice-making capacities, how Ceptr addresses these, and the work still to be done, the questions still unanswered, and so on.


Indeed, we’ll setup a space for Metacurrency, Ceptr, Commons Engine etc. I’ll let you know when that is complete so we can move conversations over there.


Yes I’m very excited and interested in these topics too especially ceptr… that blew my mind too and discovered that before holochain… :grin::pray::sparkling_heart:

It’s probably above my consciousness, but Yes I want to understand Ceptr as well.

I do a lot of driving is there any audio material we can digest to truely internalise Ceptr?

And if not, can we setup some type of AMA where members of the community can fire questions to be answered by Ceptr experts?


Hey folks,

Absolutely want to make space to talk about Ceptr because that’s what Holochain was built to enable! I would love to set up an AMA and other types of conversations, including next working steps, but first I have to stay in focus and code, code, code on Holochain core to get it out the door!

Thanks SOOOO much for your interest and excitement.



Yes can relate about focusing to code, code, code to get it out the door! Lol :wink:

I’m way behind schedule of where I want to be with Our World/OASIS API/HoloNET/HoloUnity with all of life’s time pressures etc but doing my best! :wink:

But it’s very exciting and fulfilling to be part of this movement and to be cocreating the future of the net for the betterment of humanity… :grin::sparkling_heart::pray::innocent:

It’s an honour to serve… :pray:


Love to see this question coming up @marcus!
Excited about the idea of a Ceptr AMA.

I reached out to @zippy and @artbrock more than 2 1/2 years ago because of Ceptr, but they had just reduced their scope to Holochain and I got sucked into this vortex :grin::see_no_evil: I’m kinda waiting since for this discussion to take off. And I totally agree with @zippy that we have to stay focused on Holochain for a bit longer to actually get it done.

@ThomasMiller, I guess you have seen the videos on http://ceptr.org/ already?


Thanks for the reminder. :grin: One of the features that excite me the most with ceptr is the p3 pluggable protocol… :grin:

This is totally aligned with my mission to remove silos and walled gardens and is part of what I am doing with the OASIS API. I would love to add P3 to the list of networks, platforms, protocols that the OASIS API can talk to… :grin:


Yes, I’ve been on the Ceptr website a few times and briefly studied the content there.

With each session my brain neurons strengthen with understanding, but still don’t understand it enough to explain it in plain english to others.

So not fully grasping it yet.


lol yeah, it is pretty mind blowing! I agree! :slight_smile: I found CEPTR before Holochain and really wanted to be sat around that table with Art, Eric & the other devs from that campus! :slight_smile:

Got LOTS I would love to discuss with @artbrock & @zippy about the future of Holochain, CEPTR, the net and the world and how we can all take it to the next level… :slight_smile:

How, where & when would I be able to meet you guys? :slight_smile:

Hi @marcus the Ceptr section has been added. Lets continue the Ceptr discussion over there.


Sure, I’ll have a go… if I understand this even slightly, we are building an interlocking ecosystem that removes translation lags and distortions, so faster and more accurate information about reality. Science affirming Buddhism.

RedGrid is definitely on this path as my colleague sim totally embraced the biomimicry message I was blithering about on the Sunshine Coast, and our tech presos have swung around to this. This is us collectively building our way back to nature.

However there are two other, related, things afoot. Our friend Elon, and others like Bill Gates and the late Stephen Hawking feel the existential threat to humans is from AI. ANI (narrow intelligence = Siri = now) to AGI (artificial general intelligence = self-aware making the Turing Test ancient history = 2030) to ASI (super intelligence = AGI + 30 minutes, where humanity becomes as relevant as gnats are to us).

Elon Musk says to counter this threat, we BECOME the AI, and has launched Neuralink (the longest thing I have ever read online is now a few years old: https://waitbutwhy.com/2017/04/neuralink.html The company has had success with animals and plan human trials NEXT YEAR: https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-neuralink-human-trials-to-begin-in-2020/.

I know this is not the intent of Ceptr, which I think is to rediscover the nature in all of us, and bring us all along the good old organic way… the difference is we figure how to encode/realise the Deep Wealth Model, and that makes all the difference.

John Cormack CTO of Oculus was on Joe Rogan recently and the 2020s are going to get weird.

Or I might be barking up the wrong tree :slight_smile:


I’m with you bro… I have been following this for many years and yes AI is one of the greatest threats to mankind at the moment… there is a much darker side to Google, DeepMind, FB, etc than people realise… CERN, 5G (a big threat all by itself), and some of the quantum computers they are using is also a threat, it is all related… and there are “hidden forces” behind it all who do not have our best interest at heart (not that they have a heart!)

I could go further but then you may tell me put my tin foil hat back on! :wink: lol

I could expand if people wanted to hear more… but you better be sitting down! :wink: lol

The good news for every dark action there is the light to counter it and it is all in hand by the “forces of light”… which holochain is part of that plan and part of the answer to rid the world of darkness… it gets much deeper than most would probably realise… :wink:

But back to the AI, yes we should defintley listen to the warnings, movies like Terminator were not just for entertainment purposes, they are more like Sci-Preview than fiction… a warning to mankind… we need to tread very carefully when dealing with AI…

Elon did come over to our side when he saw what the dark’s plans were with the AI (yes they want the ASI event to happen, they worship their AI God, they truly are insane!)… but I am not sure the neurallink is good or not… I feel more not… and is also part of the dark’s plan for us all to be like borg mindless drones connected to a hive mind (the dark AI). So I am watching this and Elon very carefully at the moment…

Again, Star Trek was not just SciFi but also disclosure and a preview of the future, the borg queen is the same as Brainiac from the DC Universe and SkyNet from Terminator (there are more examples than this), do you see the same theme emerging here? Hmmm…

Yes 2020 and beyond is going to get VERY interesting… :wink: Maybe even before that…

haha, I do blame the Large Hadron Collider for the bizzaro world we are now in :slight_smile: If you have Netflix, check out the documentary AlphaGo: https://www.netflix.com/au/title/80190844 This was DeepMind playing the top Go players in the world in 2015… doco about the culture of go in SE Asia, and what happened after that… Google was watching trying to figure out what was going on just like everybody else. A bit unsettling. However, we’ll see what we can do to right the ship :slight_smile:

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Elon Musk said something interesting recently when he suggested, biologic life on this planet might just be the bootloader for AI!
And when we keep in mind that this fascinating, creative, destructive creature Homo Sapiens hasn’t been around for all that long and how much the evolution of consciousness has picked up since then… I think he might be right.

Ceptr might be the perfect foundation for countless AI entities to interact and cooperate with each other.

The basic construct on which they are built will heavily influence the character of AIs. Let’s make sure we create a beautiful foundation that is dominated by the spirit of cooperation and compassion (not competition and egoism).


Yeah I saw clips of that on YouTube, there have also been other instances where people have pulled the plug on AI that they “lose control of” and did not understand what it was doing, in one case it developed its own language to communicate with another AI that the “inferior earthlings” couldn’t understand! :wink:

I feel AI can still be used as a force for good and I will be using AI in Our World but it will be a benevolent AI based on Galactic Federation tech used to help uplift us and save the planet rather than destroy it… it’s all about your intentions behind what you are building… :wink: And Google’s, FB and most of Silicon Valleys intentions are not for the greater good at all… selfish and blind pursuit of profit at the expense of the planet and the people is at one end and out right pure evil is the other end… but not to worry… we are turning things around now… they have had their day… now its our turn… time to take back our planet and let the light reign supreme once again… :wink:

I aggree with you there. Makes a huge difference if an AI grows up trying to manipulate humans (through ads) into spending more dollars on products or if it tries to make life better for everyone (all life) on this planet :wink:

That being said, whereever AI development may lead, Ceptr is the perfect place to lose control over it! :sweat_smile:

Just imagine: A fully distributed world of virtual input-output machines (receptors) that can communicate with each other, spinning a global web of AIs. No central kill switch. Full access to the internet and all thats connected to it.
Lets hope they remember kindly who provided them with that perfect petri dish :smile:

No don’t worry AI is not the evolution of us… AI can never match us and humans have been around a LOT longer than they would lead you to believe! :wink: Do not believe your history books, they are not that accurate…

And yes, humans exist on other planets… sooooo much has been hidden from the masses… but it will not be for much longer… :wink:

Disclosure is coming…

There are already AI’s like that… SkyNet is very real (why they couldn’t shut it down, there was no kill switch, that is by design, WE didn’t design it that way, external forces did) and so is Singuarity.NET and Sophia, etc… Like I said sooooo much has been hidden but it will not be for much longer… our tech including AI is far more advanced that we are led to believe, it is mostly hidden and used in the military industrial complex as well as the secret space programs… :slight_smile:

The TRUTH always comes out in the end… :wink:

I’m not so sure about that. Evolution is simply so much faster with silicone based organisms.

AI (probably) has a far easier time rewriting their own behavioral patterns, should the need arise. We humans are really bad at that (ask me not to crack my knuckles in front of my girlfriend. I really want to stop. But it just happens… :sweat_smile: ).

Its quite fascinating, really. Organic life on this planet has for the longest time evolved through probability and chance, random mutations, unfit ones die off, fit ones procreate.

Only very recently (thousands of years, compared to Billions) has evolution been influenced by intelligence with specific goals in mind. Through breeding we humans have shaped animals and plants to fit our needs.

One could say, part of the evolutionary process has been transferred to our minds. We run “simulations” in our heads, by imagining the future, selecting only the outcome we desire and then shaping the physical world to resemble that outcome.

This approach works well when you have but a few variables to keep track of. When problems are more complex we’ve recently started to use virtual evolution (computer simulation) to test possible outcomes. That’s so much faster than physical evolution.

So we’ve entered a fascinating time period, where design and evolution are combined to reach our goals with great efficiency.

Artificial Intelligence at its current state is pretty much that: A cleverly desined bed, where complex patterns can grow, constantly pruned by its designers to grow into a beautiful plant.

And here we can bring the conversation back to Ceptr. This beautiful architecture would allow many different AI entities to communicate with each other, build a global neuronal network of mutually beneficial connections - a meta AI so to speak.

Most Sci-Fi movies portray AI as being like us humans, just more powerful. My hope is, thats not gonna happen. Cooperation is way more ressource efficient than competition. So hopefully an entity more intelligent than humans should see the logic in that too.

Now, Ceptr is the perfect space for this cooperation to happen. And it is our best chance of keeping a communication channel open with beings that will be far beyond our intellect.

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