Patent and governance

Since the channel in mattermost has been deleted with this topic, I thought it would be good to revive the conversation here.
Background is that Holo has registered a patent for the DHT. This has been placed into a corporate structure where the shareholders of Holo may at somepoint decide to be patent trolls, and put all of our hard work developing on this platform to waste.

There was discussions of that patent being moved to the Holochain foundation.

Has anything been done to move the ownership? And the questions regarding how the Holochain foundation is governed were never answered. If it’s the same shareholders of Holo then it should be handed over to another opensource foundation to govern.

We don’t want to see a repeat of Redhats sale to IBM. If it’s open software keep it open.

I never really understood the reason to patent open software, so how can holochain show the community it isn’t for the wrong reasons?

Please link us to the registration

@artbrock, has it passed provisional patent status and public yet?

@dhtnetwork perhaps you can answer some of this? Is Art even on this forum yet?

Most open source projects obtain intellectual property protection to defend off any potential threat posed by patent trolls. Now with that being said no single entity controlled by a small group of individuals should retain the rights of ownership, it needs to either be transferred to the holochain foundation, any other open source foundation or be placed in a patent pool that fights patent trolls.


@artbrock @dhtnetwork is this something holochain is considering, and can we read this patent?

rrDHT provisional patent is in place. I don’t believe the details are available yet. Once it’s possible to share, I’ll post here.

There is a rrDHT google doc, but I don’t believe it’s a public facing document yet.

Art is traveling right now so I am not sure when he will be able to join the discussion here.

All Holochain related IP (including rrDHT) is in the process of being transferred to the Holochain Foundation as part of its formation, which is in process and legal review at this moment.


This is going in a loop, same discussion over on Mattermost.
Who runs the holochain foundation? Is it the same as Holo? How is it governed? If it’s the same as the commercial side of Holo then it doesn’t give me much confidence. Handing it over to a opensource foundation for enforcement needs sounds better to me.

What is the problem with Holo? Sorry I am not following? Did I miss something?

I am in the same boat with Our World, I want it to be Open Source, which it currently is but it still needs to be protected so it does not fall into the wrong hands and be misused in ways I never intended. My intention for Our World is to help the world, not to make money but at the same time it needs to be sustainable… I feel this is how most of us feel…

Been chatting to Luck Light about this problem on telegram and his Creafree project looks promising as a way of protecting our creations whilst still keeping them open source.

As far as I am aware patents are expensive and are only valid in one country so do not really make sense to me?

So Holo (the for profit company) has filed for a patent on the DHT technology. They are saying it will be transferred to the Holochain Foundation (the not-for-profit). This is a typical ICO type structure to have a for profit and a foundation.

My argument is if it’s run by the same people that own Holo what is to stop you trolling us all in the future, paying yourself fat salaries from the not-for-profit and charge licenses once we’ve built all this amazing creations.

The reason for the patent was supposed to be for enforcement of the CAL license. Which I don’t 100% understand, because that could also be done from a copyright stand point. The only real reason for patents typically is licensing of IP. Microsoft has make squilliions on patent licensing.

I hope it’s not true, but it’s totally possible. the Holochain Foundation is made up of 4 people. Art, Zippy, David Atkinson, Mary Camancho. Art and zippy have been at this for years, I trust their cause. The other two come from corporate. If the cause is true why not move it to another opensource Foundation.

The whole reason for existance for these opensource foundations is to sue based on license infringement and are funded by the proceeds from the cases they’ve won. Sounds perfect doesn’t it?

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I was considering giving Our World to the .NET Foundation, but I did not want to lose control of my IP, is that still possible? I still want to own Our World so I still decide its direction, etc…

How does the Holochain Foundation work? I had never heard of that until now… where can I find out more? Is there a link somewhere?

I trust Holochain and Holo, so I wouldn’t worry about it mate, it will all work out in the end… we are all divinely guided and there is a much bigger game being played out right now… all I can say, trust me, we are all in good hands and you have nothing to worry about! :wink:

No I’m worried! You should be too! If you are building on it. All your hard work could be taken advantage of.
I skeptical of all trust arrangements, where one party is to be considered the only one that needs trust.

This in my eyes is has opened up a potential for exploitation by Holo.

Just because they are building a trust system should we trust them, just like we did with the financial sector. If that is the case, we are replacing one evil overlord for another.

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Is it Holochain’s policy to ignore the things that are difficult to answer?
@artbrock @zippy @dhtnetwork

What’s the question? Zippy provided a response here/above. Things are In process and details are not final yet.


I’m also setting up a non-profit foundation for my decentralized network, would love to speak to someone who was involved in the creation of Holochain