Holochain Forum

Collective Intelligence with Holochain + IEML - Information Economy Meta Language

This really is a placeholder post so anyone interested in the words and links and pictures posted and who is keen on building things leveraging these two future technologies can reply and say hi and, well, that’s all I know right now.

I’ve a multitude of ideas for projects however I’m more keen on building a community of interest and then perhaps bring those up when others want to do similar, rather than this be about me and my ideas lol.

I’m also keen to focus on building things and the discussion around building things, as opposed to any discussions around other things that aren’t to do with building things. If you know what I mean :wink:

It seems Pierre funds development of the project through a number of ways, mostly consulting with organisations helping them to create their own dictionaries and exploiting the benefits of collective intelligence, so there’s definitely a marketplace for products and services around this, it would be good to explore ways of widening the reach beyond just those presumably high cost projects, although wouldn’t mind a few of those too lol :wink: I digress… at the moment it’s purely just my interest in the possibilities of these technologies that makes me want to post this as I believe them to be potentially profound.

Last time I mentioned IEML, someone ended up joining the IEML contribution team, must check how they’re doing… anyway, here’s some links and pretty pictures:

I first discovered Pierre’s work in 2005 when I was browsing a second hand book shop in downtown Toronto and saw his book, now available for free online - it blew my mind! I’ve been an avid follower of his work ever since, he is around on twitter frequently and mentioned to me back in Jan they were working on a site for exploring IEML + Holochain integration.

Screenshot 2021-03-30 at 14.43.23
Pierre Lévy - “Becoming Virtual, Reality in the Digital Age” - 1998


Pierre Levy takes a fresh look at the whole idea of what is virtual. He’s responding to the widespread belief, and sometimes even panic, that a digital society with emphasis on virtual interactions is necessarily depersonalizing. He takes particular exception to the notion that “virtual” and “real” are opposites. Instead, Levy argues that virtuality is one of four modes of existence, the rest of which he describes as reality, possibility, and actuality. Each is defined in terms of its relationship with its environment. In following Levy’s world view, you may find that he interprets some or all of those terms in ways you’re not used to, but the result is an interesting new approach to what it means to be part of an increasingly digital world. He examines the virtualization of several elements our society: the corporal body, text, the economy, language, technology, contracts, intelligence, subjects, and objects. What he finds is not a destruction of the personal so much as a transformation. Virtualization adds to, but does not replace, the real, the possible, and the actual. By understanding what virtualization means and involves, Levy believes that society will gain a greater variety of options for interaction in all areas. Becoming Virtual is a serious philosophical work, dense with ideas.



Online IEML Editor:
Screenshot 2021-03-30 at 14.23.12


Adding ‘pingback’:

Social collective intelligence

Adding ‘pingback’:

Grant writing in America

Adding ‘pingback’:

Holo Art Gallery

I’m also fan of IEML Pierre works …
… and I suppose that Holochain should be a wonderful tool for a fully distributed version of an IEML editor
Just posted this few weeks ago about my favorite TOP5 projects


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Hi @hubject - I see it is a year since we last connected re IEML!

In their “Outline of a Business Model for a Change in Civilization”, or “how to move from a metadata language to a culture of collective intelligence…” article, Pierre Lévy’s consulting company INTLEKT Metadata Inc. have detailed their outlook for the next few years and which markets they think will be more likely to adopt IEML.

The more I watch how projects are being built in Holochain, the more I see the opportunity to incorporate IEML into the process as it then provides a real value over and above the distributed, decentralised Holochain does - computable metadata, true Collective Intelligence.

When I look at the projects and work you’ve discussed in your posts to the Holochain forum I instantly get triggered because I believe they’re trying to dictate a particular “way of doing things” as opposed to what I believe IEML would do is simply encode the process that’s being developed. I don’t mean that as an attack on the things you talk about, just an observation of how different they are to how I view IEML’s usefulness.

I also don’t hold out much love for an “IEML editor”, I think IEML is something you encode at the time of creating the functions in a particular domain. For example, if you were creating a skills matching app you could enable statements like “I can play the violin”, “I would like to be able to play the violin”. Perhaps a better example is skills matching in a particular industry as it gets more fine-grained.

Other thoughts around how it could be implemented which are of particular interest to myself due to my recovery from severe B12 vitamin deficiency is being able to encode “truth” in terms of “facts” and “meanings”, so I might have a headache and there’s a million-and-one reasons why. If I currently search the web for headache we’ll get a not-very-useful response, however if we searched based on peoples “truths” in terms of the “fact” they got a headache and the “fact” that they were taking X medicine or had Y stressful day, this would revolutionise the health industry as all I saw throughout my recovery was “official” research mostly skewed and the entire university, hospital, etc. system totally skewed, and the “alternative” health industry has much more “real” research and results, and it’s all a complete and utter madness resulting in what we see today which I won’t go into right now :wink:

So instead of having and IEML editor (which you can totally still have, just saying I won’t be using it!), I envisage something akin to the printing press for the holographic world, holo.press" and thought up some word play to describe what it does:

  • Encoding New DNA Symbiosis - Why this future? (‘ends wtf?’!)
    • Fractal Algorithms: Collaboration Time Space (FACTS)
    • Trusted Re-decentralised User Technology Holochain System (TRUTHS)
    • Meanings, Ends And Negotiations In Notation Generates Symbiosis (MEANINGS)

FACTS - so in our example of a skill, a fact would be someone encoding / publishing “I can play the violin” - the “Fractal Algorithm”. The “Collaboration Time Space” is where they might link to a video of them playing the violin, it’s a space where the fact can be debated. Someone may come along and say “this person can’t play the violin” but might not add any proof, and so on. I guess a more complicated/useful example might be good here but hopefully you get the point. A FACT is a statement that can be debated. It was a “fact” the world was flat, then it was round, and so on. Who’s to say tomorrow it won’t be a triangle? Probably not, but “FACTS” are seemingly malleable especially these days :wink:

TRUTHS - “It is true that Stephen stated at 4.20pm on Friday 30th June 2020 that he could play the violin.” The IoT device at location XYZ at time HHMMSS said it’s raining. A TRUTH is something like "Well, if there’s a population of 10,000 people in this town and 80% of them suddenly had headaches come on at a certain time then perhaps there’s something strange going on here. This could revolutionise healthcare and medical research, so if we’re going to bank on Holochain being the future, enabling an IEML layer from the very beginning would result in awesome things. The trick is making it compelling and easy.

A “MEANING” is the result of the calculations you can do on TRUTHS and FACTS.

The more I scribble this the more I sound like a crazy person so I’m going to leave it there for the moment, I’ve been thinking about what medium I could best express this - whether creating a video or ideally an example but every time I look at any code I pass out at the moment lol but of course it’s one of those things I see clearly in my mind, then stumble like crazy trying to communicate it as simply as I see it.


I am with you, no worries to soundly like a crazy around here. Big ideas typically are somewhat scary.

When I read your post it seems to me that this isn’t just a game changer for medical research, but science in general. FACTS integrate nicely with the replication of experiments and results in the scientific method. Earning some form of science reputation from replicating experiments is way overdue, instead of just publishing papers like crazy and hoping to get cited.

IMO this will be a game changer for politics too. Defining an ontology of the real world and our societies structure as a digital twin.

I imagine it as a big open source project where the ontologies source code is held in a publig Git-like repository. The development workflow of keeping it up to date would be the next-gen politics then. However, the simple pull request model with peer reviews probably isn’t enough to create high quality social structures. A more rigurous process is needed. Got some ideas here but that’s a story for another time.

A big part of future society is data. So real world data like co2 levels in the atmosphere, or how many trees are cut down/planted in different areas should load up the ontology with data. This is important to get feedback on how our society performs and whether it meets our expectation or more work is needed. I mean, that’s what really is missing in todays politics. An official way of determining that the current system either works as expected, or is oficially broken.

Such an ontology would also embody all law, if there is a need for it at least. Courts would be reduced to the process of matching real world happenings with their digital representation. Once matched the ontoloy clearly defines that was rightful and what wasn’t.

I am curious, do you guys think there is a need for sich a digital twin ontology, or is it enough to just let people develop independent social coordination systems and let the users decide what to use and what won’t be used?

I am somewhat familiar with ontologies and OWL, but thanks to you stephenbpurkiss I found IEML which sounds very promising to say the least.

Either way, I think I have finally found my community here. You guys will definitely hear a lot from me from now on!

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Yay, someone who doesn’t think I’m crazy, or at least someone who’s as crazy as I am! :wink:

I discovered IEML in 2005 and it blew my mind, and I’m still yet to find anything else that comes close. One of the big issues was how do people encode it, however I’m coming closer to answering that too.

I just saw your reply after shutting down my laptop from a long day working on an Executive Summary for a funding proposal for my ‘PDA Pioneers Club’, which is a project to help connect those affected by this autism spectrum disorder characterised by a pervasive demand for autonomy…

My intentions are that over the next few months, given I manage to get funding from a source I hear is interested, or by me being able to make some sales, to start to create a language around the world of PDA, which is mostly dealing with trauma issues, entrepreneurship, health, food, etc.

By encouraging service providers to describe what they do “I help people deal with triggers”, “I help people with recipes for healthy treats”, that can start building a system so over time collective intelligence emerges and eventually I’ll be able to have a view/list of appropriate resources based on the personal data I hold that doesn’t have to be visible by the service provider.

I’m a little overtired but thought I’d post as will be busy in the morning polishing my prose, cos if this goes well then I’ll be super-happy and will get to live my IEML & Holochain dreams!

Such a geek.


Might as well post my draft here, why not?!

#FeedbackFriday - Well, it’s Friday in some countries already :wink:


Thought I’d post up what I’ve got so far for my 1pm deadline in case any other lovely people happen to drop by and care to take a perusal over my proposal. It’s a bit ‘dry’ but it is a first draft. I find it much easier to big up other people than myself, although I realise some might not see it that way lol.

Picture credit: I googled “pie on ears” and this was the first thing that came up.

PDA Pioneers Club Executive Summary

PDA Pioneers Club is a project to foster connections between those affected by Pathological Demand Avoidance and the tools and teams providing help across three critical areas for evolution - Health; Wealth; and Relationships.

Proposed by Professor Elizabeth Ann Newson OBE over 40 years ago in 1980, PDA is still not officially recognised nor widely known about, and thus PDAers and those around them are left without appropriate help resulting in high levels of unemployment and suicide rates.

There are a number of individuals, groups and organisations who are pioneering changes, from training PDAers to train others instead of non-PDAers being the trainers, to lobbying schools and government for appropriate help to this specific condition with its own unique needs and requirements compared to others on the spectrum.

This project is a proposal to support their current efforts as well as a plan to provide a leading edge technology platform and sustainable operating model in order to grow their efforts. Focusing on PDA as the most urgent need, the service will be expanded to cover other neurodiverse conditions when feasible.

PDA is an Autism Spectrum Disorder characterised by a Pervasive Desire for Autonomy. PDAers needs to live their life according to their own rules, their own code and compass, and would really prefer the world changed to fit that. This can make PDAers great activists and revolutionaries, people who lead and inspire others and ultimately pretty awesome people, except when they have to live under other people’s rules and demands.

This is the journey founder Stephen B Purkiss experienced, discovering PDA in 2020 at the age of 48 after suffering from what he now knows was Autistic burnout from masking, just before masking entered mainstream popular culture. During recovery from a severe Vitamin B12 deficiency where he couldn’t stand up or think straight four years ago, Stephen encountered numerous problems related to information discovery, access to appropriate services, and funding that he had also experienced and provided a number of improvements to during his career unknowingly leveraging these PDA traits as an activist in the Free/Libre Open Source Software community.

With forty years since he first played with code, Stephen has thirty years IT industry experience and his first website project twenty years ago was for Volkswagen UK, delivering the first ever online car configurator.

After the dotcom crash, Stephen discovered community-built Free/Libre Open Source Software, helped UK Councils save millions of taxpayer pounds, and was the first ever community-elected Director of the Drupal Association, a non-profit organisation supporting the Drupal Open Source project, the largest Open Source community of contributors in the world.

Stephen set up an online system for Drupal businesses to connect and collaborate as well as for customers to connect to those with the specific skills and expertise they required for their projects. Encountering PDA Pioneers in his discovery, Stephen saw how the issues he experienced in the commons-based peer produced world of Open Source could also be applied to help in the world of neurodiversity that is woefully served by the current official health systems around the world.

One key issue identified from research was the lack of resources to learn entrepreneurship in order to be self-employed as many PDAers are. Whilst many fellow PDAers share their story, parents especially were keen to discover more of the methodology and this is one main area of expertise founder Stephen has, having been part of the Entrepreneurs Institute for the last 16 years and recently completing his Flow Consultant training.

Being able to share his learnings and provide mentorship to others with similar need for autonomy, Stephen believes this could be a key differentiator for the PDA Pioneers Club and hopefully lead to numerous turnarounds in the lives of others.

Having companies partner and perhaps become patrons, it might also be possible to provide funding in order to help a number of PDAers keen to change their lives with the opportunity to apply to be considered for such a wonderful opportunity!

Other key areas relating to health and relationships will be addressed similarly, partnering with experts from within the existing PDA community and the wider world in order to grow a wealth of useful information and resources over time. Revenues are expected to be gained from promoting partner services and creating focused packages of services from multiple partners collaborating on addressing key problems raised by the community as the most urgent requirements.

This partnering approach provides a win-win-win situation where more targeted service offerings help the service provider increase sales; the community members gain via economies of scale for services many may not explore or be exposed to on an individual basis; and PDA Pioneers Club wins with a clear route to sustainability provided by a business model in direct alignment with the success of its partners and members. It takes time to bring communities together, and funding to negotiate and develop partner contracts, plan and execute promotions. Sponsorship would ensure PDA Pioneers Club became a reality.

Initially a Facebook group and mailing list to grow community and discover functional requirements, the intention is to create an independent community owned and operated online asset organically based on the emerging distributed, decentralised Holochain technology. This technology provides users complete control of their privacy and data, as well as helping to overcome a number of social issues that occur when interactions are concentrated into a small number of groups instead of a more natural system where birds of a feather can flock together.


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