Holochain Forum

Thoughts on ThreeFold?

Just wondered how Holochain relates to ThreeFold, from the perspective of Holochain devs?

Would be great if anyone could share their perspective. The projects are obviously related somewhat.



Im curious as well to hear. I didn’t find all too much about this projet but it seems to follow similar goals as holochain. But I personallly am still sceptical, but to be honest didn’t really looked into it all too much.

And first I heard of holochain I also thought it is kinda too good to be true.

Also while researching i found some people saying that there was premined coins on block 12 and all investments of people were swaped with an untradable token. But didn’t find any proof about that case.

So If anybody has good links or resources drop them here :slight_smile:

I suspect TF being a fraudulent organisation. There are several indications from public sources that tokens were not minted, but were printed.

This link shows that tokens were printed just when the ‘blockchain’ of TF started. There has always been said that tokens are backed by capacity


With that block it is shown that they were printed.

Also the minting process that shows that there is decentralization is done manually.

Another concern I have discovered is about the code

https://github.com/threefoldtech/jumpscaleX_core is the core of Jumpscale, what drives 3bot, but doesn’t contain libs

Disclaimer: I am a long term follower of holochain project, but I decided to remain anonymous for various reasons.


here are the actual 3bot packages: https://github.com/threefoldtech/jumpscaleX_threebot/tree/development/ThreeBotPackages

you will find stuff around the grid and tft, but nothing that does actual minting. that code is in a private repo, but is nothing to do with their tech. Certainly nothing to do with the 3bot / jsx stuff

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I recently discovered Threefold. In the video here https://wiki.threefold.io/#/howitworks_2 the guy states that the threefold grid is energeticaly more efficient than server farms. In one slide he claims to provide an explanation but fails miserably.

Apart from any technical argument, that unsustained claim alone put me off completely. I think server farms are energetically more efficient than a bunch of separate devices operating in various physical conditions. Farms are engineered to be efficient and take advantage of centralization for that. Some are located in cold places, Microsoft is even experimenting with underwater farms. Why would you lie about energy consumption with a straight face, to look good? It doesn’t take much to debunk that claim. Just do the math from the specks of their boxes. But they must know that… It tell me something about their culture… They don’t inspire trust.

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I have some knowledge of this project and it’s not good. For one the main Kristof guy was sued by Cleversafe who later sold to IBM for stealing priority infomation when he was consulting with them.

The Threefold project has its programming foundation on this stolen information. The block12 information from Gabriel above is all true also.

He has used the sales of Threefold tokens to fund his lifestyle which includes renting mansions, yachts and partying in Dubai, Ibiza and Switzerland as well as financing his personal side programming development business in Cairo Egypt.

Now he and Threefold have as of at least 3 months ago run out of money having sold the token down from 18 cents to just above 2 cents and spending it on his lifestyle.

People I have spoken to within this project speak like it’s a cult. And when I listen to this guy Kristof speak on youtube it definitely sounds like conman.

The few people I managed to speak that are or where associated with the project mostly say don’t let his snake talk fall you and one even called him a dictator. And go on to list many issues with the project from lack of focus, funding, marketing, knowledge. This list is almost endless.

I luckily stayed away from this project and glad I did and please do your own assessment.


Dear reader, my name is Kristof and I am one of the founders of ThreeFold.

Not sure who ThreefoldioBlock12 is, would be nice to speak with people who are not afraid about showing their identity.

One of the companies I co-founded was indeed in a patent lawsuit with Cleversafe and was a clear example how toxic patents can be. After 3 years of staying alive thanks to our investors, the case was dismissed by a judge because there was no ground. Couple months later the company was acquired.

About block 1, all can be found on our wiki, there is a lot of detail about our history on https://library.threefold.me/info/manual/#/tokens/threefold__threefold_history

Up to you to decide if we approached things in the right way or not.

Token overview can be found on: ‘token_overview’ on same wiki (this forum does not allow me to put more than 2 links, sorry)

I am not going to answer on ridiculous allegations around our lifestyle and selling tokens, its not worth it. The people who know us, know better.

About power usage, there is information on our wiki and blogs, but looks like it’s not clear, we will provide some more information on our wiki. For storage we win about 10x on power compared to a classic storage system, for the digital twin its harder to asses but it’s even more, I do realise this sounds unrealistic. As said will provide more info.

Please if you have other questions go to our forum:

And thank you for pointing out items which are not clear, we are constantly trying to learn from our community and improving our knowledge base (wiki).



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The above points from Gabriel and Threefoldblock12 can be verified.

Let’s put the printing of 695m tokens to rest by proving this out.

Entertaining your suggestion that 695m genesis tokens were properly farmed in your words “We took ± 1.5 years in our calculation. Averaged out, it’s for sure not exact science”. Taking the March 2018 date and going back 18 months you get October 2016. This is also the date as pictured in Gabriel’s post so we agree as to the date.

Now, Github posting in early 2018 under Mazraa proj_genesispool by one of your employees titled “Create record of Genesis pool existence”. Seems that you never had servers online before this date and you are trying to make up the evidence as an afterthought.

This is also backed up by posts on your own telegram channel in March 2018 where your employees posted pictures of the servers arriving at both the Dubai and Belgium locations in March 2018! You had no servers generating exactly zero of the 695m tokens before then! You quite obviously printed the 695m tokens in March 2018 and have since been marketing the false claim that you never printed tokens. This is such an easy thing to prove and it’s arrogant of you to keep pushing this lie and promoting it as if your coin is better than others. It wouldn’t be such a big deal if you just printed and released this information in March 2018. But you chose to be dishonest and continue to be. Safe to say, March 2018 is at the very earliest your genesis date.

There was also the change of the 695m tokens from Block 12 (Gabriel above) to a Block 0. Has the same ID; this might have something the do with your forfeiting of your own blockchain and the move to the Stella Chain and some groupings you made to seem more in line. Seems very suspect but I can’t verify either way.

As for your statement that “win about 10x on power compared to a classic storage system, for the digital twin its harder to asses but it’s even more” please release an independent test done by a reputable independent agency that verifies your claim. On your site there is nothing but your own claim that this is so.

Reading through other materials and your telegram channels there is a continuous promotional push of stating that you never did an ICO. The thinking is obviously that this makes you superior in some way. However, you did do an ICO on June 17 2018 with BTC-Alpha exchange and your own employees wrote about it here,

(ThreeFold just deleted this story after this post. LOL. But here is a post made by this same author on their telegram channel " [12:07:20 AM]Nickolay Victorovich Babenko:admin

Dear Friends, This is the official public chat of the ThreeFold Token project - threefoldtokendotcom](threefoldtokendotcom)
Here you we will be publishing all news and updates so you can follow our progress
Our public token offering is scheduled for March, 2018.
Link to the whitepaper: threefoldtokendotcom/pdf/tf_whitepaper.pdf
Feel free to ask any questions, some of our team members will answer them.

[tf_whitepaper.pdf] 1.3 MB

Nickolay Victorovich Babenko pinned «Dear Friends, This is the official public chat of the ThreeFold Token project - threefoldtokendotcom Here you we will be publishin»

— Tuesday, December 26, 2017 — )

In the original medium post, he calls it not an ICO, it was an “initial” coin offering. You also sold coins to retail investors under a so-called “friends and family” scheme. What part of all this is not an initial coin offering? You then froze the listing on BTC-Alpha and rereleased yet another scheme using only a pseudo untradable token on June 1 2020 back onto BTC-Alpha and one more exchange. This is also easy to prove with a simple google search. Why you feel the need to be dishonest is just another huge red flag. Also apparent from your telegram is that your attitude towards people who question any aspect of your project; that you don’t agree with is hostile and offputting. A simple dialogue concerning the lack of marketing and you told the guy ‘if you don’t like it leave’. WTF! The guy is correct btw, your lack of understanding of marketing and promotion in the crypto space is astounding; to the point where I can’t help but question if you have an ulterior motive.

The bottom line is I couldn’t care less about you or your token but since I have already wasted time researching and posting here what is glaringly obvious is that you have been less than truthful and as a consequence, I can’t imagine anyone seeing this as anything but a s#1tcoin where you pump and sell into it with those 695m printed tokens and leave investors holding the bag.


Guys this will be my last post on this,
above is clearly coming from someone who does not wish well for ThreeFold

All is on our wiki’s.

  • for our less power usage see sustainability section
  • about the ICO statement, see our wiki for our explanation

It is what it is, the genesis pool is there, it has a purpose and I believe it was ok.
The resulting token overview is good and in benefit of community,

see https://library.threefold.me/info/threefold/#/tokens/threefold__token_overview

Note how many of the tokens are in vesting pool and how few are liquid, this defeats your argument about us planning this to dump tokens.

Why would we do all of this work, with so much technology up and running and can be tested by all to just steal your money, hmmmm I don’t think so.

about crypto space, maybe we are not the typical crypto project?
I as a person do not believe in promoting a token as a product by itself, and that is what I said.
I’ve never claimed that we are crypto experts, we try to do things differently, so respect us for that.

We try to be super transparent. If you look at your github for foundation and threefold tech you can see that. Are there still things to do ofcourse, lots of… more than welcome to learn what is needed first. I wish every project would do this.

And yes I do believe in keeping energy up positive and be nice to each other, if you don’t like a project just don’t spend time on it, why do you feel the need to spend so much time to try and find something which you can use to bring this project down??? Why not just leave and let us do our job. The future will show. Why do you feel the need to as a new anonymous user have to write this answer?

I will not answer further on this forum, this is my last answer here.

ThreeFold has nothing to do with Holochain, so not sure why I have to be even here to defend ourselves.

All the best


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Hey guys, really sorry to see this. I don’t resonate with most written here, I have only had good experiences interacting with the ThreeFold guys and have been made to feel very welcomed, definitely not a cult! :wink: lol

What they are building looks very exciting and I will be using their ThreeFold nodes powered by ZeroOS to host some of the ONODE’s (will of course also be using Holoport’s ) powering the ONET (OASIS Network). ThreeFold will also be deeply integrated into the OASIS API and the Avatar Digital Twin system.

I cannot speak to any of the stuff posted in the past, all I know these are part of the good guys helping to create a better world so I feel we should all be working together rather than arguing… we all want the same thing… a better world for us all… so let’s put our differences aside and start working together for the greater good of all… the world is depending on it… :wink: Thank you. :pray:


Much love & blessings,
D. :heart: :heart: :heart:

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I really could not care less about you or your project. I just googled a few things and looked at your GitHub and telegram. Spent 2 hours of work to see what you are all about and found plenty to be worried about. Maybe posting here will save people torching their money with you.

You might of started with good intentions but you saw you couldn’t deliver. Your right you’re not the typical crypto project. Most aren’t scammy like you. Innocent people will lose money to you and your continuous fraud.

You still haven’t addressed the 695m token printing on Block 12 but only to say “it is what it is”. As for your vesting you cant be serious? These are probably your own tokens from your farms and those of main farmers. No independent investor would vests their token for the ZERO % interest you offer. These tokens you gave to yourself from your own centralized farms? It such a incestuous scammy thing to do. You owned the farms before anyone else. Pre mined tokens. Please how naïve do you think people are?

You still haven’t provided any independent evidence for the energy savings claim even though you said you would. Why not? Because its all BS maybe?

Please do us all a favor and just stop this madness.

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strange that some people here only seem to be on this forum to talk bad about threefold
please check the page of Moh and Gabriel, the only thing they did on this forum was being busy with this post. Ofcourse they like each other (-:

Weird isn’t it.

PS, this same person, was reaching out to our community so called as 3e party and using this post.

There is clearly more going on here than just warning some community.

If you don’t like a project or trust it you normally just go away.
Doing so much effort by the same person needs to have a purpose.

This might be linked by some scam people tried on us.

Anyhow up to the smart reader to make up their own mind, its so sad that Holochain allows their forum to be abused like this.

PS: the info you are referring too is all on our wiki, carbon double win explained, genesis pool same, … like I said before up to you to decide if this good enough or not. The claim we use money for our own benefit is super ridiculous, ThreeFold has been financed majority by its founders and friends, not the other way around.

have a nice evening, I hope Holochain will do the right thing and remove this post so it cannot be used against us.

l know this project and I know some of the people in the project. Please do your own research before you invest in this project and this person. If you need more details message me and I will help you if I can.

Three fold started with the goal of rewiring the internet in 2018 but its become clear that its not happening.

The thing Moh and Gabriel said are correct and true. Lots off money has been funneled to Kristof other side businesses and his personal expenses.

Many investor millions went to renting villas and offices in Dubai and Ibiza and funding his own data centers in Belgium in Egypt and his the business of his wife a charter boat business in Egypt.

Kristof I am not sure why you did this and still continue. are you also lying to yourself? When I found out about and your LSD habit this was the last thing. I really I am not to surprised. You can deny if you want but we both know.

I can understand being concerned about funneling money to side business, personal expenses, and family members, but LOL at judging someone for have an “LSD habit.” I think it’s fairly accepted now, not just among hippies, but also among scientific researchers, that LSD and other psychedelics are the least harmful and most beneficial class of “recreational” drugs one can take (far safer and more beneficial than alcohol, for example, which is extremely harmful). They have legitimate uses for developing greater openness to experience, appreciation for beauty, recognition of interconnectedness between self/other/nature, and providing deeply meaningful spiritual experiences.

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He lives in Dubai in the United Arab Emirates. An Islamic state where no amount of any recreational drug LSD included is allowed. He will end up in jail or worse. They don’t play around there. He is singularly putting the project at risk and basically announcing a big “F@CK YOU” to investors and contributors. With this act, he has shown he cares zero about them.

His LSD habit whilst a resident of Dubai is incredibly irresponsible and selfish and he should resign from the project if this is the way he treats his responsibilities. The issue of LSD being “fairly accepted now” is irrelevant being the facts here.

Resigning is the best thing he can do for this project given this behavior.

Dear Thomas,
You’re probably the same guy as Moh and Gabriel.

I am sorry that you are so angry and feel the need to try and discredit us and the project,
we know you are behind the chat you run on Telegram where you use these posts.

I believe the world is a good place and people want to experience themselves who we are and what we stand for. If anyone wants to believe above accusations thats ok.

I can only say for myself, I love the world, we do everything we can to help bring positive change.

We believe the world needs a new kind of digital backbone (internet) build on a different set of values. ThreeFold is very close to my heart, we do everything we can to help it to grow in an organic way and as decentralised as possible.

Allow me to wish you a good day, and I hope you can find peace to let us go.
If there is anything we can help you with let us know,



ps our new version 3.0 is out on testnet, anyone who wants to try
go to https://library.threefold.me/info/manual

It is interesting that you didn’t actually deny your LSD use.

No one is angry here tiger and thank you but there is nothing I need your help with. I am not on your Telegram chat, nor am I any other person or have any involvement with your project.

No one is denying the world could be better off with a more robust internet infrastructure so you can lay off spinning the conversation elsewhere. Unashamed you even took the opportunity to still shill your project whist not denying.

If you really want positive change you would never risk it by taking drugs whilst living in an Islamic state. Seems that you love yourself more than the world you profess to love. I feel sorry for your investors and contributors.

Do whatever you like buddy but know “tu pû tromper quelques hommes, ou les tromper tous dans certains lieux et en certains tems, mais non pas tous les hommes, dans tous les lieux et dans tous les siécles”

I feel like I’ve been watching Eastenders but a few of the people from Coronation Street decided to break through their Truman Show horizon and take part in some mockumentary Lock Stock remake. On an incredibly tight budget (of talent).