Holochain Forum

Thoughts on ThreeFold?

Just wondered how Holochain relates to ThreeFold, from the perspective of Holochain devs?

Would be great if anyone could share their perspective. The projects are obviously related somewhat.

Thanks,
Chris.

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Im curious as well to hear. I didn’t find all too much about this projet but it seems to follow similar goals as holochain. But I personallly am still sceptical, but to be honest didn’t really looked into it all too much.

And first I heard of holochain I also thought it is kinda too good to be true.

Also while researching i found some people saying that there was premined coins on block 12 and all investments of people were swaped with an untradable token. But didn’t find any proof about that case.

So If anybody has good links or resources drop them here :slight_smile:

I suspect TF being a fraudulent organisation. There are several indications from public sources that tokens were not minted, but were printed.

This link shows that tokens were printed just when the ‘blockchain’ of TF started. There has always been said that tokens are backed by capacity

https://explorer.threefoldtoken.com/hash.html?hash=a68e8d60a7be47ada69deeb1213d3e12489d50d0c451895678c42c49d04863b1

With that block it is shown that they were printed.

Also the minting process that shows that there is decentralization is done manually.

Another concern I have discovered is about the code

https://github.com/threefoldtech/jumpscaleX_core is the core of Jumpscale, what drives 3bot, but doesn’t contain libs

Disclaimer: I am a long term follower of holochain project, but I decided to remain anonymous for various reasons.

here are the actual 3bot packages: https://github.com/threefoldtech/jumpscaleX_threebot/tree/development/ThreeBotPackages

you will find stuff around the grid and tft, but nothing that does actual minting. that code is in a private repo, but is nothing to do with their tech. Certainly nothing to do with the 3bot / jsx stuff

I recently discovered Threefold. In the video here https://wiki.threefold.io/#/howitworks_2 the guy states that the threefold grid is energeticaly more efficient than server farms. In one slide he claims to provide an explanation but fails miserably.

Apart from any technical argument, that unsustained claim alone put me off completely. I think server farms are energetically more efficient than a bunch of separate devices operating in various physical conditions. Farms are engineered to be efficient and take advantage of centralization for that. Some are located in cold places, Microsoft is even experimenting with underwater farms. Why would you lie about energy consumption with a straight face, to look good? It doesn’t take much to debunk that claim. Just do the math from the specks of their boxes. But they must know that… It tell me something about their culture… They don’t inspire trust.

I have some knowledge of this project and it’s not good. For one the main Kristof guy was sued by Cleversafe who later sold to IBM for stealing priority infomation when he was consulting with them.

The Threefold project has its programming foundation on this stolen information. The block12 information from Gabriel above is all true also.

He has used the sales of Threefold tokens to fund his lifestyle which includes renting mansions, yachts and partying in Dubai, Ibiza and Switzerland as well as financing his personal side programming development business in Cairo Egypt.

Now he and Threefold have as of at least 3 months ago run out of money having sold the token down from 18 cents to just above 2 cents and spending it on his lifestyle.

People I have spoken to within this project speak like it’s a cult. And when I listen to this guy Kristof speak on youtube it definitely sounds like conman.

The few people I managed to speak that are or where associated with the project mostly say don’t let his snake talk fall you and one even called him a dictator. And go on to list many issues with the project from lack of focus, funding, marketing, knowledge. This list is almost endless.

I luckily stayed away from this project and glad I did and please do your own assessment.

Dear reader, my name is Kristof and I am one of the founders of ThreeFold.

Not sure who ThreefoldioBlock12 is, would be nice to speak with people who are not afraid about showing their identity.

One of the companies I co-founded was indeed in a patent lawsuit with Cleversafe and was a clear example how toxic patents can be. After 3 years of staying alive thanks to our investors, the case was dismissed by a judge because there was no ground. Couple months later the company was acquired.

About block 1, all can be found on our wiki, there is a lot of detail about our history on https://wiki.threefold.io/#/threefold__threefold_history

Up to you to decide if we approached things in the right way or not.

Token overview can be found on: ‘token_overview’ on same wiki (this forum does not allow me to put more than 2 links, sorry)

I am not going to answer on ridiculous allegations around our lifestyle and selling tokens, its not worth it. The people who know us, know better.

About power usage, there is information on our wiki and blogs, but looks like it’s not clear, we will provide some more information on our wiki. For storage we win about 10x on power compared to a classic storage system, for the digital twin its harder to asses but it’s even more, I do realise this sounds unrealistic. As said will provide more info.

Please if you have other questions go to our forum:

And thank you for pointing out items which are not clear, we are constantly trying to learn from our community and improving our knowledge base (wiki).

regards

Kristof

The above points from Gabriel and Threefoldblock12 can be verified.

Let’s put the printing of 695m tokens to rest by proving this out.

Entertaining your suggestion that 695m genesis tokens were properly farmed in your words “We took ± 1.5 years in our calculation. Averaged out, it’s for sure not exact science”. Taking the March 2018 date and going back 18 months you get October 2016. This is also the date as pictured in Gabriel’s post so we agree as to the date.

Now, Github posting in early 2018 under Mazraa proj_genesispool by one of your employees titled “Create record of Genesis pool existence”. Seems that you never had servers online before this date and you are trying to make up the evidence as an afterthought.

This is also backed up by posts on your own telegram channel in March 2018 where your employees posted pictures of the servers arriving at both the Dubai and Belgium locations in March 2018! You had no servers generating exactly zero of the 695m tokens before then! You quite obviously printed the 695m tokens in March 2018 and have since been marketing the false claim that you never printed tokens. This is such an easy thing to prove and it’s arrogant of you to keep pushing this lie and promoting it as if your coin is better than others. It wouldn’t be such a big deal if you just printed and released this information in March 2018. But you chose to be dishonest and continue to be. Safe to say, March 2018 is at the very earliest your genesis date.

There was also the change of the 695m tokens from Block 12 (Gabriel above) to a Block 0. Has the same ID; this might have something the do with your forfeiting of your own blockchain and the move to the Stella Chain and some groupings you made to seem more in line. Seems very suspect but I can’t verify either way.

As for your statement that “win about 10x on power compared to a classic storage system, for the digital twin its harder to asses but it’s even more” please release an independent test done by a reputable independent agency that verifies your claim. On your site there is nothing but your own claim that this is so.

Reading through other materials and your telegram channels there is a continuous promotional push of stating that you never did an ICO. The thinking is obviously that this makes you superior in some way. However, you did do an ICO on June 17 2018 with BTC-Alpha exchange and your own employees wrote about it here,

(ThreeFold just deleted this story after this post. LOL. But here is a post made by this same author on their telegram channel " [12:07:20 AM]Nickolay Victorovich Babenko:admin

Dear Friends, This is the official public chat of the ThreeFold Token project - threefoldtokendotcom](threefoldtokendotcom)
Here you we will be publishing all news and updates so you can follow our progress
Our public token offering is scheduled for March, 2018.
Link to the whitepaper: threefoldtokendotcom/pdf/tf_whitepaper.pdf
Feel free to ask any questions, some of our team members will answer them.

[tf_whitepaper.pdf] 1.3 MB

Nickolay Victorovich Babenko pinned «Dear Friends, This is the official public chat of the ThreeFold Token project - threefoldtokendotcom Here you we will be publishin»

— Tuesday, December 26, 2017 — )

In the original medium post, he calls it not an ICO, it was an “initial” coin offering. You also sold coins to retail investors under a so-called “friends and family” scheme. What part of all this is not an initial coin offering? You then froze the listing on BTC-Alpha and rereleased yet another scheme using only a pseudo untradable token on June 1 2020 back onto BTC-Alpha and one more exchange. This is also easy to prove with a simple google search. Why you feel the need to be dishonest is just another huge red flag. Also apparent from your telegram is that your attitude towards people who question any aspect of your project; that you don’t agree with is hostile and offputting. A simple dialogue concerning the lack of marketing and you told the guy ‘if you don’t like it leave’. WTF! The guy is correct btw, your lack of understanding of marketing and promotion in the crypto space is astounding; to the point where I can’t help but question if you have an ulterior motive.

The bottom line is I couldn’t care less about you or your token but since I have already wasted time researching and posting here what is glaringly obvious is that you have been less than truthful and as a consequence, I can’t imagine anyone seeing this as anything but a s#1tcoin where you pump and sell into it with those 695m printed tokens and leave investors holding the bag.

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